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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 32 post(s) |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4740
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Posted - 2013.04.27 11:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
If CCP has made it so that you need a second person to scoop all the loot, then this probably means (if it's done properly) that it's designed to be decently profitable for two people (since they'd have to share it). Which means that while you won't get all the loot on your own, what you will be able to pick up should still be pretty profitable. In addition the twitch game really makes it so that you do need two people to grab everything. I kind of doubt there are many people who will be able to dual box and still do a decent job of grabbing stuff. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4744
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 14:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:And the "hacking game" they showed? Weak. I'm sorry, but it's just weak. If you're going to do something like that, make it fun and challenging. See Bioshock hacking system, and that's just one example of dozens. Did the part where Soundwave said "this is a work in progress" completely fly over your head? |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4745
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 15:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
Moneta Curran wrote:Utremi Fasolasi wrote:Gnoshia wrote:Well it's better than the old system that much is certain.
Clicking a module and waiting to loot the can was about as mind-less and boring as you can possibly imagine. Granted this new version isn't much better, but it's enormously better than the old system. You practically have to have both Hacking V and Archaeology V, to get the Tech II modules, plus rigs, to avoid spending most of your time just twiddling your thumbs waiting for the module to succeed on the current system. Anything is an improvement. Because why would you need to train for anything rite!? Let's just abolish the whole skill system while we're at it. Yes! That's it.. let's be consistent and do this for mining too.. I've got a GREAT idea.. Mining lazorz are now super powerful and they blow up the roid in one shot!! Now all you have to do, is click as fast as you can to pick up all the chunks!!! Brilliant. You don't even know how the system works yet. Why are you making all these dire predictions? Do I have to keep repeating that Soundwave said that this was a work in progress? |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4745
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 15:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
It's not a "if you click the red dot something bad will happen", the red dot is simply an indicator that you can't grab it because it's either out of reach or you're currently pulling in something else.
You really shouldn't even need the color indicators. It should be fairly easy once you get used to the system to judge which ones are close enough to grab and which ones are flying too far away. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4745
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 16:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
Karig'Ano Keikira wrote:reserving judgement on this one until I see how it actually works in practice however, I agree that explorers are often solo people, so 'forcing' group work in it might not be best idea I really don't think this is forcing group play at all.
All it is is making it so that you can't get maximum payout alone. If you could, group play wouldn't be viable at all. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4753
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 22:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Garresh wrote:For Bobs Sake people...the new jettison mechanic doesn't kill solo play. Look can we think in terms of opportunity cost for a second? 1 player gets 6 cans per site. Let's say that comes out to 20 mil a site. 2 players get 12 cans per site. That's 40 mil in stuff...split both ways. Or 20 million isk per person. Now step back and think for a second. Exploration has never been an "optimal" isk source. For that you go to mission running. Or, if multi boxing, mining. Exploration requires going to null or lowsec for money. All this change does is allow you to bring friends IF YOU WANT. Exploration was the only profession that didn't become faster/more profitable with friends, like missions or mining. And you know what? People still do those things solo. I don't see what the fuss is about. Pretty much everyone who's posted in this thread should read this post. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4782
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 00:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Aralieus wrote:Being a highly active solo low/null sec explorer I think if I'm taking maximum risk I should therefore receive maximum reward. It's bad enough scanning down sites with the right ship then having a dps/tank ship nearby and logistically realistic enough to do everyday and maintain acceptable profit margins in different 0.0 regions all on 1 character. I understand all that will be a thing in the past and that's great but please don't make me twitch for my reward while still taking hella risk to do so. You will receive maximum reward when you're alone. The system is simply set up so that working with someone else doesn't reduce your individual reward. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4802
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 07:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
Xavier Quo wrote:I'm liking this less and less the more I think about it tbh, before if you had poor skills you wouldn't be able to scan the site, bit more skills and it would take you a long time to access cans. But once you were in the sites you knew that it was a successful explore, provided you can kill the rats (not really an issue, I started with a magnate with 3 hob ii's, no probs in hi or lo). Now, once you get into the site you may fail the mini game or miss the few cans that contain the more valuable things. The fact that the cans disappear is really jarring, it would have been much better if you could chase them, making it a lot longer for solo players but without the sense of failure where there should be success. Mini games are out of place in eve. Even a puzzles in different locations in or out of system, like amini-escalation with a bit of lore based note taking or collecting audio logs etc would have been great, but this is really wide of the mark imo, sorry. "Success isn't 100% guaranteed, therefore this new system is bad." No. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4804
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 11:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
Alek Row wrote:I'm not into hacking myself, but from other games experiences, this kind of mini games usually get boring VERY fast. For certain activities F1 still have a place despite the obvious lack of interaction.
This is one of your experiments right? Otherwise you had put this kind of mini games in mining (LOL). Let's just start with hacking first?
It can't possibly be as boring as what we have now. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4804
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 11:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
Prototype = "stated intent" apparently |
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4804
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 11:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
La'Krul wrote:Sorry to pre-judge but it looks like garbage. There really wasn't much wrong with exploration anyway, so they'll probably ruin it now instead of fixing null or something useful. As someone who has all probe skills at V and salvager, analyzer, codebreaker at V, I really won't be too happy if a whole load of new probing and module skills are released on the back of this junk.
A mini-game, I mean seriously, WTF! There wasn't much wrong with a system where you clear a room of rats like you do in pretty much every single site there is, go up to a can that's sitting in space for no reason, and activate a module and twiddle your thumbs?
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4821
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 23:54:00 -
[12] - Quote
Georgina Parmala wrote:Garresh wrote: That's what I've been saying about opportunity cost since like page 3. Everyone is approaching this from a completionist perspective instead of an economic one, so they feel like alts or friends are necessary.
No, I'm approaching it from a game design perspective. Where succeeding at a task in an entertainment product is supposed to convey a sense of accomplishment and make the end user feel good about it. That entails far more than "Ok, I played an hour now, what's the estimated ISK value of my cargo?". If you feel inadequate for not having grabbed every single container then that's not anybody's problem but yours. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4821
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 23:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
Argus Greymoore wrote:The dev giving the demo mention to "bring a friend" to scoop the loot pi+Ĥata cans that couldn't otherwise be grabbed by a single player, but I can't see the benefit in this. If they've tuned it to look for a solo player using the new system to be the same as the existing system, then two times the loot split between two players nets you the same loot you would get by just doing it yourself. The only benefit is abating the feeling of "there was extra loot to scoop but I couldn't get it". No, the benefit is that you have a friend doing sites with you (added social interaction, probably other percs such as scanning systems faster) and that bringing them along doesn't reduce your payout. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4826
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Posted - 2013.04.30 04:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Argus Greymoore wrote:The dev giving the demo mention to "bring a friend" to scoop the loot pi+Ĥata cans that couldn't otherwise be grabbed by a single player, but I can't see the benefit in this. If they've tuned it to look for a solo player using the new system to be the same as the existing system, then two times the loot split between two players nets you the same loot you would get by just doing it yourself. The only benefit is abating the feeling of "there was extra loot to scoop but I couldn't get it". No, the benefit is that you have a friend doing sites with you (added social interaction, probably other percs such as scanning systems faster) and that bringing them along doesn't reduce your payout. Right well is eve about - synergetic alliances of convience with the ever lurking threat of betrayal, or - happy happy friendship time, lets all play with our buds I mean, I think the former is more fitting with new Eden. I don't see the point of bringing a friend just to bring a friend, with no material advantage to it. And? So what? |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4827
|
Posted - 2013.04.30 04:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
DSpite Culhach wrote:Ari Laveran wrote:The Panic is strong in this thread.
Logan LaMort has it about right. There is more good than bad here.
Is it really that far of stretch for sci-fi game that releasing an airlock would fling debris into space? I'm not understanding why this idea is upsetting so many people, or is taken as contrary to the nature of eve. The gods forbid I have to click a "thing" in my PC MMO. This logic is solid. However, I should be able to bring a Noctis and snatch 8 things at once; unless this is also possible, then these are just arcade mechanics for the sake of annoying players.
CCP Bayesian wrote:You can use the tractor beam module to pull cans that are out of range closer or fly out to them. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4828
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Posted - 2013.04.30 10:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:And...no one is going to sit there in their paper thin scanning ship with sisters prob launcher fitted and say, well since my arse is flapping in the air why don't i invite some more ships into this site for zero reward. That's going to DIScourage interaction, with the 99.9% of players who are not on your teamspeak already. So don't. Nobody can force you to cooperate with other players. Those that already have established circles of trust will find benefits in bringing these people exploring with them.
I really doubt x% more income from doing exploration sites will automatically cause you to start making friends in this game. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4844
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 04:46:00 -
[17] - Quote
Xindi Kraid wrote:Andrea Griffin wrote:Myself, for what it is worth (not much, I'm sure) I welcome CCP trying to innovate and make the game of exploration something more than 'activate the module, grab the stuff.' I don't know if I particularly like this concept but I'm more than willing to give it a try. We're going to get it whether we like it or not, so hey, might as well see how it turns out right?
CCP coming up with ideas is a very good idea. Throw ideas around and see what good stuff bubbles up. We should still be vetoing bad ideas. I am of the opinion, twitchfest is a bad idea. Click, wait a couple seconds, click, wait a couple seconds, etc. is a twitchfest to you? Maybe minesweeper is more your pace. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4844
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 04:50:00 -
[18] - Quote
Misanth wrote:You know this game has always catered for solo- as well as groups. And the rewards has always been with the groups. Corporations, and later on Alliances when you added that. The benefit of strength in numbers. Before we had player built Outposts, people could dare to venture in small scale to null, now it's nearly impossible (some of us do, I'm one of them, but we're almost extinct). Small scale PvP is about dead. Old belt-ratting that was such a great way of finding small scale PvP opportunities have been killed off and been replaced by group-centered activities (Incursions, sov-upgrade blob hubs, etc). Even the Black Ops that was quite useful in small scale has now been another tool in the hands of the blobs. Small gang PVP isn't dead at all. Just because there are lots of blobs doesn't mean you can't PVP in small groups as well, or even solo. I've done it many times.
Misanth wrote:Adding incentitives for people to group-PvE is not bad. Making it worse for soloers, is. I can only speak for myself, but after playing this game for near a decade, and at points having had 10-20 accounts running same time, the only things that been interesting to me in last few years has been WH and Exploration. I guess it's a good thing they're not making anything worse for soloers. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4844
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 05:06:00 -
[19] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote: I guess it's a good thing they're not making anything worse for soloers.
Unless you want to mine in a Wormhole. That's really the only gripe I have about this entire thing, and I don't even play in WH space. Not sure how CCP expects ice miners in WH space to prevent being blown up by cloaked ships all the time. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4845
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 07:48:00 -
[20] - Quote
Sorry about your bad internet, but that puts you at a disadvantage for a lot more things in this game than just exploration. The game shouldn't be balanced around shoddy connections. |
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5521
|
Posted - 2013.06.10 20:16:00 -
[21] - Quote
D'Angelo Barksdale wrote:If the sites only despawn on completion then most of the sites will hang about with just the crap loot left in them as who's going to hack a can when there's nothing to gain from it. Or you could just force two successive failures. This takes at most 10 seconds per can, not counting the travel time between cans. -áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |
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